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	<title>Comments on: LGBT Equality Orgs Do. Not. Like. Olson/Boies Lawsuit</title>
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	<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/</link>
	<description>Same dork, new year!</description>
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		<title>By: EXCLUSIVE: The Letter To NCLR, Lambda and the ACLU &#171; Law Dork, 2.0</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-341</link>
		<dc:creator>EXCLUSIVE: The Letter To NCLR, Lambda and the ACLU &#171; Law Dork, 2.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-341</guid>
		<description>[...] NCLR &#8212; along with the Human Rights Campaign, Freedom to Marry and other LGBT groups &#8212; issued a statement soon thereafter, declaring that they &#8220;discourage[] people from [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NCLR &#8212; along with the Human Rights Campaign, Freedom to Marry and other LGBT groups &#8212; issued a statement soon thereafter, declaring that they &#8220;discourage[] people from [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Olson/Boies Suit Gets Major Boost &#171; Law Dork, 2.0</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>Olson/Boies Suit Gets Major Boost &#171; Law Dork, 2.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-340</guid>
		<description>[...] initial, full-force opposition by every national LGBT group, the group behind the Olson/Boies challenge announced this evening [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] initial, full-force opposition by every national LGBT group, the group behind the Olson/Boies challenge announced this evening [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MrSan</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator>MrSan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-339</guid>
		<description>I, too, don&#039;t like the idea that a lawsuit like this one requires the &quot;blessing&quot; of an organization. Still...there are lots of really bright people within those organizations that decided a lawsuit is not worth filing....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, don&#8217;t like the idea that a lawsuit like this one requires the &#8220;blessing&#8221; of an organization. Still&#8230;there are lots of really bright people within those organizations that decided a lawsuit is not worth filing&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: After Four Months . . . &#171; Law Dork, 2.0</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>After Four Months . . . &#171; Law Dork, 2.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-338</guid>
		<description>[...] LGBT Equality Orgs Do. Not. Like. Olson/Boies Lawsuit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] LGBT Equality Orgs Do. Not. Like. Olson/Boies Lawsuit [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dissenting Justice</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator>Dissenting Justice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-319</guid>
		<description>Boies and Olsen are going to disappear from GLBT people after this case -- whether they win or lose. So the notion that GLBT social movement organizations will become &quot;irrelevant&quot; lacks any meaningful basis.

The Supreme Court will not respond to the &quot;passions&quot; of the GLBT communnity.  Wanting marriage does not do the legwork needed to achieve it. People seem to embrace a very immature and ahistorical notion about &quot;change&quot; - something that the Obama generation is quickly learning to discard. It really takes work. This does not make someone a gradualist sell-out. Instead, it is a statement of reality.

Finally, &quot;aggressive&quot; action need not happen in a court.  The GLBT groups have not opposed the marriage equality movement. Instead, they believe that the process should remain in state courts and legislatures rather than federal courts. The notion that progressive change is the exclusive province of federal courts is untrue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boies and Olsen are going to disappear from GLBT people after this case &#8212; whether they win or lose. So the notion that GLBT social movement organizations will become &#8220;irrelevant&#8221; lacks any meaningful basis.</p>
<p>The Supreme Court will not respond to the &#8220;passions&#8221; of the GLBT communnity.  Wanting marriage does not do the legwork needed to achieve it. People seem to embrace a very immature and ahistorical notion about &#8220;change&#8221; &#8211; something that the Obama generation is quickly learning to discard. It really takes work. This does not make someone a gradualist sell-out. Instead, it is a statement of reality.</p>
<p>Finally, &#8220;aggressive&#8221; action need not happen in a court.  The GLBT groups have not opposed the marriage equality movement. Instead, they believe that the process should remain in state courts and legislatures rather than federal courts. The notion that progressive change is the exclusive province of federal courts is untrue.</p>
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		<title>By: Dissenting Justice</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-318</link>
		<dc:creator>Dissenting Justice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-318</guid>
		<description>Your &quot;gut feeling&quot; does not mean that the Court will agree with the plaintiffs.  The law on GLBT people and equal protection is still developing.  It is disheartening to hear people who are truly concerned about equality and justice make arguments that show a lack of understanding of the Court&#039;s political nature.  The &quot;state-by-state&quot; approach is how things have happened historically.  States banned slavery long before the US.  States ended segregation and gave women the right to vote before the US. States got rid of their sodomy laws prior to Lawrence v Texas.

On big political and social issues, the Court comes in to correct the &quot;outliers.&quot; When Loving v Virginia was decided, for example, only 16 states banned interracial marriage. Also, the Court had favorably decided so many race cases, including Brown v Board of Education, that it was easy to predict how it would rule. Furthermore, Congress had already passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act. And just about all of the states banned racial discrimination in some respect. Basically, there was a long history of racial justice that informed the Court&#039;s ruling in Loving.

By contrast, outside of hate crimes laws, no federal statute protects GLBT people from discrimination.  The military openly discriminates against GLBT people pursuant to federal law.  Only six states recognize same-sex marriage. DOMA is still the law of the land. The President opposes same-sex marriage.  Many states have amended their constitutions to ban same-sex marriage. And only a few states prohibit discrimination against GLBT people. These are not the best conditions to bring a federal case -- particularly with 4 votes already in the &quot;no&quot; column.

When Romer v Evans was decided, only ONE state (Colorado) prohibited the enactment of laws protecting gays and lesbians from discrimination.  When Lawrence v Texas was decided, only four states criminalized same-sex sodomy exclusively -- while in Bowers, about 25 states criminalized sodomy.  The Court routinely cites to developments in the states and in Congress when it decides important &quot;rights&quot; and &quot;equality&quot; cases.  This lawsuit and the arguments that endorse it fail to appreciate or understand this historical and doctrinal context.

http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/2009/05/ted-olsen-and-david-boies-are-either.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your &#8220;gut feeling&#8221; does not mean that the Court will agree with the plaintiffs.  The law on GLBT people and equal protection is still developing.  It is disheartening to hear people who are truly concerned about equality and justice make arguments that show a lack of understanding of the Court&#8217;s political nature.  The &#8220;state-by-state&#8221; approach is how things have happened historically.  States banned slavery long before the US.  States ended segregation and gave women the right to vote before the US. States got rid of their sodomy laws prior to Lawrence v Texas.</p>
<p>On big political and social issues, the Court comes in to correct the &#8220;outliers.&#8221; When Loving v Virginia was decided, for example, only 16 states banned interracial marriage. Also, the Court had favorably decided so many race cases, including Brown v Board of Education, that it was easy to predict how it would rule. Furthermore, Congress had already passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act. And just about all of the states banned racial discrimination in some respect. Basically, there was a long history of racial justice that informed the Court&#8217;s ruling in Loving.</p>
<p>By contrast, outside of hate crimes laws, no federal statute protects GLBT people from discrimination.  The military openly discriminates against GLBT people pursuant to federal law.  Only six states recognize same-sex marriage. DOMA is still the law of the land. The President opposes same-sex marriage.  Many states have amended their constitutions to ban same-sex marriage. And only a few states prohibit discrimination against GLBT people. These are not the best conditions to bring a federal case &#8212; particularly with 4 votes already in the &#8220;no&#8221; column.</p>
<p>When Romer v Evans was decided, only ONE state (Colorado) prohibited the enactment of laws protecting gays and lesbians from discrimination.  When Lawrence v Texas was decided, only four states criminalized same-sex sodomy exclusively &#8212; while in Bowers, about 25 states criminalized sodomy.  The Court routinely cites to developments in the states and in Congress when it decides important &#8220;rights&#8221; and &#8220;equality&#8221; cases.  This lawsuit and the arguments that endorse it fail to appreciate or understand this historical and doctrinal context.</p>
<p><a href="http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/2009/05/ted-olsen-and-david-boies-are-either.html" rel="nofollow">http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/2009/05/ted-olsen-and-david-boies-are-either.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: PG</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>PG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 16:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-320</guid>
		<description>BobN,

Really, who is this paying Ted Olson&#039;s and David Boies&#039;s $1000+/hour fees for a pipe dream? I wanna recruit that guy as a client.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BobN,</p>
<p>Really, who is this paying Ted Olson&#8217;s and David Boies&#8217;s $1000+/hour fees for a pipe dream? I wanna recruit that guy as a client.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Watson</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 04:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-337</guid>
		<description>Wow, BobN, anger much? Maybe this is &quot;the brainchild of an idiot in LA who thinks hiring his pals/clients and throwing money at them is going to solve everything.&quot; The &quot;damn money&quot; has to come from some where and if it&#039;s being used to pay a juridical bazooka like Olson and Boies, great! More power to the LA idiot!

LGBT rights organizations &quot;would not pick this particular fight,&quot; but brilliant legal minds did, in fact, pick this particular fight. You&#039;re right about millions of gay couples being in far worse situations, but I disagree that there are better ones out there. If there were &quot;better ones out there,&quot; why didn&#039;t the LGBT groups offer them up to help strengthen a case that they consider inferior?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, BobN, anger much? Maybe this is &#8220;the brainchild of an idiot in LA who thinks hiring his pals/clients and throwing money at them is going to solve everything.&#8221; The &#8220;damn money&#8221; has to come from some where and if it&#8217;s being used to pay a juridical bazooka like Olson and Boies, great! More power to the LA idiot!</p>
<p>LGBT rights organizations &#8220;would not pick this particular fight,&#8221; but brilliant legal minds did, in fact, pick this particular fight. You&#8217;re right about millions of gay couples being in far worse situations, but I disagree that there are better ones out there. If there were &#8220;better ones out there,&#8221; why didn&#8217;t the LGBT groups offer them up to help strengthen a case that they consider inferior?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Watson</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 04:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-336</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard the same thing G. It&#039;s likely that they didn&#039;t contact each and every group. There are so many that I doubt if they even tried. Personally, I strategically would have contacted only the one&#039;s that I view as effective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard the same thing G. It&#8217;s likely that they didn&#8217;t contact each and every group. There are so many that I doubt if they even tried. Personally, I strategically would have contacted only the one&#8217;s that I view as effective.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Watson</title>
		<link>http://lawdork.net/2009/05/27/lgbt-equality-orgs-do-not-like-olsonboies-lawsuit/#comment-335</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 03:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lawdork.wordpress.com/?p=1341#comment-335</guid>
		<description>Did you ever consider that we can wait 10 years, approach SCOTUS and get ruled against then too? I CAN imagine this today and 10 years from now. Did YOU read Scalia&#039;s dissent to Lawrence? I did read Scalia&#039;s dissent, many times including another today, and despite his dissent, Lawrence is now controlling when it comes to a LGBT right to privacy in our relationships. He CAN NOT deny this. I and several of my friends even believe that he will likely vote FOR this now. His reasoning ability is fierce, but even he has to follow Lawrence, Romer and Loving to a logical conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you ever consider that we can wait 10 years, approach SCOTUS and get ruled against then too? I CAN imagine this today and 10 years from now. Did YOU read Scalia&#8217;s dissent to Lawrence? I did read Scalia&#8217;s dissent, many times including another today, and despite his dissent, Lawrence is now controlling when it comes to a LGBT right to privacy in our relationships. He CAN NOT deny this. I and several of my friends even believe that he will likely vote FOR this now. His reasoning ability is fierce, but even he has to follow Lawrence, Romer and Loving to a logical conclusion.</p>
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